It's late, I'm tired even though I slept maybe 5 hours in the middle of the day. Slept on the ground last night, curled about the campfire with nothing but my poncho; haven't done that in quite a while and it felt good though also painful, cold.
These woods in Western Oregon are fine places for camping.
I would like to tell you everything that happened all weekend but I'm afraid I drank too much whiskey and forgot it.
I jumped in a river and you know how perfect cold water is. Another time Megan punched me and I spilled Jim Beam all over her pants. Gabe fell over into some trees; Mike was there and you know what he does with his time. But Janice's dad was my favorite: I like how he says the word "cool" in that long, slow voice. Coooool.
Probably I offended Mike's friend Gym Teacher, but only because I was trying to make him argue about politics.
Maybe the funniest result is that I earned the nickname Spider, variants Drunken Spider or Spidey.
The second funniest result is Last night I had this dream that these South Park-like cartoon children were getting on a bus to go to school but then they found out that the stupid kids had to get on different buses and they weren't going to school, they were going to concentration camps. Hahaha, hahaha, haha, it's a dream so you can't get offended. Retard.
***
On a related note.
(Warning: the following tirade is irrelevant to non-anarchist/primitivists.) (But read it anyway and learn something, fucker).
So many primitivists argue that "health" in hunter-gatherer societies was as good, or better, than health in modern industrial societies. (Random example: Paul Shephard in Coming Home to the Pleistocene.) I wrote a paper on this for a medical anthropology class some years back. I wish I had it now: it is a demonstration of the worst sort of cherry-picking of data and bad logic.
The basis of the argument that everyone uses goes something like this: Health declined in populations the world over following the adoption of agriculture (obligatory link to Jared Diamond). Crowding allows epidemics to proliferate. The switch to a diet based on grains erodes dental health. The combined effects of social stratification and overhunting lead to the majority of the population having little or no access to meat. Living in close proximity to various domestic animals introduced all kinds of awesome new diseases to humans, including perennial favorites polio, smallpox, and the Black Death.
The constant need for workers to farm the fields and build the chief's pyramids and fight the chief's wars meant that women were encouraged to have as many children as possible, which was of course crazy-dangerous back then; the constant need for warriors to fight in wars to get more land for agriculture meant that men were constantly getting killed too. (Not coincidentally, the highest levels of Aztec heaven were reserved for women who died giving birth and men who died in battle). And of course, that giant population dependent on one or two crops for food (instead of every plant in the forest, as in hunter-gatherer times) meant that every time there was a drought or a blight or a bug or whathaveyou, there was a famine, and everybody died.
All this is true. Life as a peasant in an incipient agricultural kingdom was shit. Agriculture probably was "the worst mistake in the history of the human race."
But this idea that hunter-gatherers 12,000 years ago were as "healthy" as we are today is just silly. It comes from a place of fear, and our inability to let go of our civilized values.
I find that usually when this argument comes up, the first thing that's mentioned is life expectancy. & in this case the usual quote comes from Richard Lee; something to the effect of life expectancy among the Kalahari !Kung people "comparing favorably" to industrial societies.
If I wanted to I guess I could do some research and refute this idea that way. But that's not where my mind's at right now. I'd rather say: Spend a weekend in the woods. Just a weekend; just a regular American-style beer and buddies camping trip: You have your own food, purchased at the supermarket; cast-iron skillets for cooking; metal knives, saws, and axes; water-proof tents; decent weather (cause you checked the forecast beforehand); a first aid kit.
I bet it'll be a good time. It doesn't get better than camping. And I bet you'll come back totally exhausted.
Okay, now go again next weekend. Only this time, pretend it's 12,000 B.C. Even though you can identify every plant in the landscape, it still takes some work to go and collect them (and Marshal Sahlins may have been wrong about just how easy this is); even though fish and game are vastly more plentiful, you still put yourself at risk every time you go looking for them, cause predators are more plentiful too-- and if you want to preserve them you can't just put them back in the cooler.
Keep going with it. It's not just for the weekend; this is your life. Every morning you wake up o the ground with the sun and the clamor of birds. The air is clean, you are at no risk of the perpetual cancers of industrialized life. The ten or twenty people around you are all friends, family -- I bet there is constant drama between you all, but none of them is your king and no one is ever going to force you to go fight a war for him. It's a good life. Free, human -- but also, pretty dangerous, and probably, pretty short.
And does that matter? All animals live longer in captivity. Of course: They're in captivity. Wouldn't it be enough to wake up alive in a world of life unmediated everyday, without having to tack on all this extra stuff about living to be one hundred in perfect health? Aren't we using Industrialism's model of "health" (ability to do productive work) anyway, and is that really the proper standard to apply?
Isn't it midnight, and haven't I been typing this rant for an hour?
Yes. Good night.
Sunday, May 11, 2008
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13 comments:
As far as life expectancy is concerned, can we with a straight face declare that a long life filled with a drab monotony is unequivocally better than a shorter life packed with adventure? Quality over quantity, baby.
Exactly!
Because I do the way I do, I wrote this with all those nit-picky details about life expectancy and such that you alluded to. Comparing hunter-gatherers in the Kalahari to our globalized elite certainly has its dangers, but overall, I think a careful look at the data backs up Lee's contention that it "compares favorably."
But as for the dangers--predation? What really hunts humans? I felt a bit of shock to hear that coming from you, Steve, I never expected that "red in tooth and claw" stuff from you. Mountain lion attacks have recently increased dramatically, all the way up to almost one person per year in the U.S. and Canada (source). Since 2000, world-wide, we know of 17 people who have died in wolf attacks (source),but only one in Canada in 2005. The rest all happened in Asia. Bear attacks happen most frequently of all, though--26 since 2000, four last year.
By comparison, on average, about 67 people in the U.S. get killed by lightning each year. Lightning causes more deaths than lions, wolves and bears combined, by an order of magnitude. People just plain don't appear on the menus of other animals all that often. Danger from predators? Maybe if we were bunny rabbits or deer, but we're humans. Predators are pretty much the last thing you have to worry about.
All in all, I would agree with you that the argument comes from civilization's values, and yes, I'd rather live 35 years free than 70 as a slave. And if hunter-gatherers lived 35 years, I'd make that argument. But fact is, far as we can tell, not only do they live more in one day than most of us do in a lifetime, they also appear to live more days, too. I get your main point, but why should we lie to make hunting & gathering sound worse than it really is, when all the evidence says otherwise?
Another point to consider is that even if civilization were to suddenly collapse tomorrow, we still would have a good deal of the knowledge that has been accumulated since the beginning of the city-state. We would know to not shit where we eat, we would know about permaculture, we would know how to diagnose and treat ailments [of course I am not proposing that these facts were not known until agriculture began, but I believe that the ideas are more widely known]. With this in mind, is it possible for us to live lives that were as fulfilling as our ancestors, but with the longevity of modern, idle wo/man? If so, then how do we start? Because I sure as shit have no intention of sitting with one thumb on the remote and the other up my ass, until some far-off apocalypse takes shape.
Jason -- Thank you for the refutation.
Seriously.
& I wasn't going all red-in-tooth-and-claw. Predation was obviously a bad example (note for later post: rant about how cars kill more Americans than cougars by a factor of 2,000) -- I was looking for something to illustrate the higher physical burden on foragers; the higher physical risk that their lifestyle entails. That was an obvious dramatic one and Anyway it was midnight and I was tired.
But you were talking about some of the same things I was, or at least, the sort of thing I was thinking about: Life expectancy at birth in the US for the white middle class *is* higher than any foraging population I've heard of. And a world in which, if you make it to fifteen you can expect to make it to sixty *is* different from what we're used to and *is not* the perfect-health paradise that so many of us latch onto, especially since the only thing we're talking about is longevity.
Is it possible?
Yes.
How do we start?
By learning useful skills and networking with the likeminded.
And maybe another round of Anthropikon, Jason?
I can't seem to write well tonight, so I'll write a comment on a blog instead, where very few people will read it. :)
B, I can't seem to find anything on your list of things we'd remember post-civilization that we didn't already know pre-civilization, but then again, I don't see any evidence for hunter-gatherers dying young, either.
Steve--no, I don't suppose you would get all "red in tooth and claw" on me, at least not consciously. But you do sound like you got a few notes going last night. Heck, I find myself whistling colonial mindsets from time to time myself. Doesn't necessarily mean anything bad, so long as you recognize the tune. But I think this illustrates the point nicely--what great physical hardships? If not predators, what? Starvation? Civilization makes that happen more, not less. I honestly don't know what the great hardship would look like.
Like I said, comparing hunter-gatherers in the Kalahari to the most elite of agriculturalists presents an exercise fraught with danger. Does life expectancy at birth really tell you anything about how hard a life you lead, when talking about a culture that sees infanticide the way we see abortion? It seems a little one-sided to say that those cultural definitions count against hunter-gatherers on the one hand, but on the other, our own Pro-Lifers calculating in aborted fetuses to drag down the U.S. life expectancy doesn't count, don't you think? I won't sit here and say I agree with Pro-Lifers, but still, it seems like a double-standard, no?
And even if we could get some good, from-15-years old numbers across the board, their civilized neighbors have life expectancies in the 30's, and the worldwide life expectancy hovers about the same age. So as I said, fraught with peril, but given that you get that from the most meager, marginal ecologies on the planet, it certainly seems to me like enough to suggest that we don't really have any evidence that hunter-gatherers die particularly young.
Another Anthropikon .... my family gave away our cabin, so now we've started saving up to get a piece of land of our own up along the Clarion. I hope to christen it with a rewild camp once that happens, and if Oregon hasn't stolen you forever yet the way it steals everyone else, you should have returned to Penn's Woods by then, if I understand your itinerary a-right. But you have to watch Oregon. Oregon's like that. All tricksy and what have you....
And now Giuli tells me that two musicians unsure of their stature tried to warn me about Oregon's ways...
Oregon is bad
Stop it if you can
Here it comes
Here it comes
Now it's after you
Flee to someplace new
Run away
Run away
All I'm saying is, all my friends go to Oregon, and then they never come back.
And by very few people, you mean my thousands of fans and well-wishers.
We're on the same page basically. Except: I don't think looking very, very skeptically at our positive portrayals of hunter-gatherer life reflects a colonialist mindset. We've agreed on the fundamentals. But it's in my view vital to constantly turn the critical eye to ourselves--
We're coming from the intellectual traditions of Anthropology and Anarchism; both these emerge from 1. Romanticism 2. the Enlightenment; both those are born in Western Europe; both converge upon Darwinists telling us about "red in tooth and claw."
Self-criticism is not called for at the expense of action, but it is nevertheless vital that it be present and constant -- I think of Boehm talking about how egalitarianism was maintained in tribal societies through constant vigilance and suppression of would-be alphas...We must do the same thing, including with our Ideologies!
...
I'm thinking of (I cannot remember who the anthropologist was) criticizing the Naskapi, that quote about "If they caught 2 or 3 or 4 beavers they would have a feast. I told them they were being wasteful, but they laughed at me and said they'd feast again on what they'd catch tomorrow. But usually they only caught wind and cold."
To me, that only sounds obvious: Why put your trust in tomorrow? Have a feast! today it is more fun. & that's how I try to live. Most people don't. Most (civilized) people would find a stretch of time (midwinter, I would guess) where game was not plentiful (& living in the north as those folk did, neither probably were edible plants) intolerable, miserable, terrifying; and the response of not saving not storing not even planning insane or ridiculous.
We're talking about different mindsets & different orientations to the world, comfort, "quality of life." I often doubt that most people raised in a civilized context would be happy in a hunter-gatherer world or any kind of freedom for that matter.
Oh, I didn't mean that any of this reflected an example of colonialist thinking, just that I sometimes do. And I absolutely agree, turning a critical eye on ourselves from time to time has a lot of value. I just don't see the evidence here that hunter-gatherers have shorter lives. We've got a lot of trouble controlling for the variables, but it seems to me that where we can, the hunter-gatherers seem to live longer than we do.
I think most domesticated folk would get a lot more happiness from a feral one ... but I don't think you'll have an easy time convincing them of that, so they may never find out.
& response 2:
Is that They Might Be Giants? Ha!
I'm not saying I'll stay in Oregon eternally... Two months ago I was ready to leave immediately; now I like it much better. Who knows...
also, I meant to post that immediately after the other one, instead there is a two hour gap and a cross-posting, how embarrassing, i wait until tomorrow & daylight before discussing further.
Oh, you might say that now. They all said that at one time or another. But Oregon is an insidious foe. Many enter, but none return.
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